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	<title>Comments on: Presiding bishop hides membership/attendance statistics</title>
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	<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics</link>
	<description>Religion editor Frank Lockwood's spirituality blog</description>
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		<title>By: Coverage of the new arrangement being offered by Pope Benedict XVI to traditional Anglicans is making mention of the division within the Anglican Communion over ordination of women, ordination of openly gay clergy, the elevation of a noncelibate homosexua</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18724</link>
		<dc:creator>Coverage of the new arrangement being offered by Pope Benedict XVI to traditional Anglicans is making mention of the division within the Anglican Communion over ordination of women, ordination of openly gay clergy, the elevation of a noncelibate homosexua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18724</guid>
		<description>[...] few weeks ago, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette editor Frank Lockwood noted that The Episcopal Church had declined to release those statistics in September, even though they were supposed to come out in September. But today I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] few weeks ago, Arkansas Democrat-Gazette editor Frank Lockwood noted that The Episcopal Church had declined to release those statistics in September, even though they were supposed to come out in September. But today I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Treading Grain &#187; Post Topic &#187; Episcopal Church Continues Decline Into Irrelevancy</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18653</link>
		<dc:creator>Treading Grain &#187; Post Topic &#187; Episcopal Church Continues Decline Into Irrelevancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18653</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Van Windsor</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18647</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Van Windsor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 00:25:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18647</guid>
		<description>David Virtue has released the numbers...I hope this site will do so as well...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Virtue has released the numbers&#8230;I hope this site will do so as well&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb Powers</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18641</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18641</guid>
		<description>Keith, I agree about the attendance numbers; that&#039;s never been considered confidential and always has been released in the past. They need to be absolutely transparent about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, I agree about the attendance numbers; that&#8217;s never been considered confidential and always has been released in the past. They need to be absolutely transparent about that.</p>
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		<title>By: perplexed</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18619</link>
		<dc:creator>perplexed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:25:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18619</guid>
		<description>If anything that should be learned from the lessons of the catholic church, it should be face the issues, don&#039;t sugar coat it, don&#039;t lie about, put it out there and deal with it. That is without a doubt the best and only true solution to this, anything else will just bring more turmoil to the church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anything that should be learned from the lessons of the catholic church, it should be face the issues, don&#8217;t sugar coat it, don&#8217;t lie about, put it out there and deal with it. That is without a doubt the best and only true solution to this, anything else will just bring more turmoil to the church.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18615</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18615</guid>
		<description>Your article isn&#039;t entirely correct.  The fall off happened much earlier.  See:
http://books.google.com/books?id=DJsA6SRr39sC&amp;lpg=PA2&amp;ots=RBYpEf_kiu&amp;dq=episcopal%20church%20attendance%20figures%20graph&amp;pg=PA4#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your article isn&#8217;t entirely correct.  The fall off happened much earlier.  See:<br />
<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=DJsA6SRr39sC&amp;lpg=PA2&amp;ots=RBYpEf_kiu&amp;dq=episcopal%20church%20attendance%20figures%20graph&amp;pg=PA4#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=DJsA6SRr39sC&amp;lpg=PA2&amp;ots=RBYpEf_kiu&amp;dq=episcopal%20church%20attendance%20figures%20graph&amp;pg=PA4#v=onepage&amp;q=&amp;f=false</a></p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18613</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18613</guid>
		<description>Caleb,
I understand the need for confidentiality in litigation, that makes perfect sense. I do have a problem of avoiding releasing the ASA numbers. Before I was a priest I have worked in government and I understand the need for &#039;a black budget&#039;(classified expenditures), but I don&#039;t feel that the ASA numbers fit that situation. Releasing the ASA numbers will be painful, but not as painful as the growing mistrust that is building within the church. Thanks to you I now understand that the cost of litigation is on a &#039;need to know basis&#039;, I don&#039;t feel that the ASA numbers are in the same category.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb,<br />
I understand the need for confidentiality in litigation, that makes perfect sense. I do have a problem of avoiding releasing the ASA numbers. Before I was a priest I have worked in government and I understand the need for &#8216;a black budget&#8217;(classified expenditures), but I don&#8217;t feel that the ASA numbers fit that situation. Releasing the ASA numbers will be painful, but not as painful as the growing mistrust that is building within the church. Thanks to you I now understand that the cost of litigation is on a &#8216;need to know basis&#8217;, I don&#8217;t feel that the ASA numbers are in the same category.</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb Powers</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18611</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18611</guid>
		<description>Keith, you&#039;re absolutely right about the actions of the Episcopal Church&#039;s hierarchy. I do not think they have done a very good job running the public relations end of this thing at all. They should simply say, in the words of my father, that bidness is bidness, and they need to keep it confidential.

As far as whether the leadership of the organization trusts its membership, of course they don&#039;t. I wouldn&#039;t, either. That&#039;s why we don&#039;t allow state secrets to be broadcast on the CBS Evening News, because we don&#039;t trust our own citizens. President Ford famously said that he&#039;d be happy to tell every American every secret the government had, as long as it wouldn&#039;t go any further. I suspect the same thing is true of the leadership of the Episcopal Church: They&#039;d be happy to tell every loyal member the cost of the litigation and their full litigation strategy as long as it wouldn&#039;t go any further.

The problem is that confidentiality really is necessary in litigation, if for no other reason than it gives the parties room to negotiate and try to work out their differences. And, if they do need to litigate some of these things, they need to be able to do that with some reasonable degree of confidentiality, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith, you&#8217;re absolutely right about the actions of the Episcopal Church&#8217;s hierarchy. I do not think they have done a very good job running the public relations end of this thing at all. They should simply say, in the words of my father, that bidness is bidness, and they need to keep it confidential.</p>
<p>As far as whether the leadership of the organization trusts its membership, of course they don&#8217;t. I wouldn&#8217;t, either. That&#8217;s why we don&#8217;t allow state secrets to be broadcast on the CBS Evening News, because we don&#8217;t trust our own citizens. President Ford famously said that he&#8217;d be happy to tell every American every secret the government had, as long as it wouldn&#8217;t go any further. I suspect the same thing is true of the leadership of the Episcopal Church: They&#8217;d be happy to tell every loyal member the cost of the litigation and their full litigation strategy as long as it wouldn&#8217;t go any further.</p>
<p>The problem is that confidentiality really is necessary in litigation, if for no other reason than it gives the parties room to negotiate and try to work out their differences. And, if they do need to litigate some of these things, they need to be able to do that with some reasonable degree of confidentiality, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Fr. Van Windsor</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18610</link>
		<dc:creator>Fr. Van Windsor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 16:01:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18610</guid>
		<description>Now, now, BBB, You have it all wrong...It is just that with all this transparency, and dare I say, transcendence,the light is just too bright to see the numbers...Look into my eyes...TEC is growing...Look into my eyes, TEC is growing...Etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, now, BBB, You have it all wrong&#8230;It is just that with all this transparency, and dare I say, transcendence,the light is just too bright to see the numbers&#8230;Look into my eyes&#8230;TEC is growing&#8230;Look into my eyes, TEC is growing&#8230;Etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18609</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18609</guid>
		<description>Caleb Powers,
That response you gave on the cost of lawsuits was the best explanation I have heard on this topic. Thank you. However the fact that you explained it well still gives me concern. At this juncture in the life of the church it would be in TEC&#039;s best interest to give clear and honest answers to these questions yet I find our leaders lacking in that regard.
Jose, when you have people looking at your motives and hidden agendas in everything that you do you, can&#039;t give the impression that you are hiding something or that you don&#039;t trust your own people. You are right, you shouldn&#039;t trust the press, but as a leader you have to trust the people that you lead. I have been a rector of two churches and one thing that I have learned is you have to trust your people. Yes it can be painful and there people that will try to do you harm, but you have to trust them with the information. It&#039;s their church and their money. The PB and President of House of Deputies may have made a &#039;smart&#039; decision, but it shows how little they trust the organization that they lead. And if that is the case then why bother to lead us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb Powers,<br />
That response you gave on the cost of lawsuits was the best explanation I have heard on this topic. Thank you. However the fact that you explained it well still gives me concern. At this juncture in the life of the church it would be in TEC&#8217;s best interest to give clear and honest answers to these questions yet I find our leaders lacking in that regard.<br />
Jose, when you have people looking at your motives and hidden agendas in everything that you do you, can&#8217;t give the impression that you are hiding something or that you don&#8217;t trust your own people. You are right, you shouldn&#8217;t trust the press, but as a leader you have to trust the people that you lead. I have been a rector of two churches and one thing that I have learned is you have to trust your people. Yes it can be painful and there people that will try to do you harm, but you have to trust them with the information. It&#8217;s their church and their money. The PB and President of House of Deputies may have made a &#8217;smart&#8217; decision, but it shows how little they trust the organization that they lead. And if that is the case then why bother to lead us?</p>
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		<title>By: José</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18606</link>
		<dc:creator>José</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18606</guid>
		<description>Re: &quot;adversarial press&quot;

What is necessarily wrong with journalists being adversarial?  After the eight years of GWBush it is danged obvious that we need the media to ask tough questions and persevere if necessary.  It&#039;s their moral responsibility.  HOWEVER...that does not mean that the subject of their scrutiny should just answer any and every question that is posed.  To restate my earlier post:  1) The ECUSA leadership could have (and probably should have) been better prepared to explain why the membership numbers were not made public, and 2) the ECUSA spokespersons would have been downright stupid to answer Frank&#039;s request for them to ad lib an approximation and an explanation.  Which I think was Dave&#039;s point too.

However I would rather not take someone&#039;s word regarding whether the NYT and WaPo have been unfairly kind in their reporting of the troubles of the ECUSA.  If these newspapers happened to neglect a bit of titillating gossip, or if they actually reported something newsworthy about the mission and outreach of the church instead of scandal, then bully for them and too bad for the disappointed spectators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8220;adversarial press&#8221;</p>
<p>What is necessarily wrong with journalists being adversarial?  After the eight years of GWBush it is danged obvious that we need the media to ask tough questions and persevere if necessary.  It&#8217;s their moral responsibility.  HOWEVER&#8230;that does not mean that the subject of their scrutiny should just answer any and every question that is posed.  To restate my earlier post:  1) The ECUSA leadership could have (and probably should have) been better prepared to explain why the membership numbers were not made public, and 2) the ECUSA spokespersons would have been downright stupid to answer Frank&#8217;s request for them to ad lib an approximation and an explanation.  Which I think was Dave&#8217;s point too.</p>
<p>However I would rather not take someone&#8217;s word regarding whether the NYT and WaPo have been unfairly kind in their reporting of the troubles of the ECUSA.  If these newspapers happened to neglect a bit of titillating gossip, or if they actually reported something newsworthy about the mission and outreach of the church instead of scandal, then bully for them and too bad for the disappointed spectators.</p>
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		<title>By: perplexed</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18605</link>
		<dc:creator>perplexed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18605</guid>
		<description>James the latter page is no longer available and the church register omits Lexington Ky.
How interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James the latter page is no longer available and the church register omits Lexington Ky.<br />
How interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb Powers</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18603</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18603</guid>
		<description>I agree with your second post more so than your first, Keith; that&#039;s why I always object when the evangelicals want to call upon the power of the state to allow them to post the ten commandments on state property, or to inject religion into the public schools in a thousand different subtle ways, or to clutter up Federal land with crosses and things. You&#039;d think if they truly were God&#039;s chosen people, as they seem to believe, they wouldn&#039;t need any help from the government.

As to your first post, though, I disagree. I used to do a lot of legal work in the area of shareholder disputes in closely held corporations and the like. In these situations, you&#039;re often fighting people who are sitting on your own board of directors, and often litigation committees are formed to keep these matters confidential even within the organization itself. 

Ditto the Episcopal Church: Release of the type of information that has been sought to the membership would naturally release it to everybody else, too. For better or worse, in law, the procedure has always been to keep things like the cost of litigation confidential until after it&#039;s over, even for governmental bodies spending taxpayer money. One of the primary exceptions to Kentucky&#039;s open records act is the need for confidentiality in ongoing litigation.

So, if we don&#039;t require governmental bodies paying for legal services with our own tax dollars to release the cost, why should we expect a private organization to do so? We&#039;d be amazed if General Motors or Microsoft released information like this. I realize that the Episcopal Church must be held to a higher standard than private businesses, but it still needs the breathing room to either settle its disputes or litigate them. After this is over, there will be no need for confidentiality, but there is today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with your second post more so than your first, Keith; that&#8217;s why I always object when the evangelicals want to call upon the power of the state to allow them to post the ten commandments on state property, or to inject religion into the public schools in a thousand different subtle ways, or to clutter up Federal land with crosses and things. You&#8217;d think if they truly were God&#8217;s chosen people, as they seem to believe, they wouldn&#8217;t need any help from the government.</p>
<p>As to your first post, though, I disagree. I used to do a lot of legal work in the area of shareholder disputes in closely held corporations and the like. In these situations, you&#8217;re often fighting people who are sitting on your own board of directors, and often litigation committees are formed to keep these matters confidential even within the organization itself. </p>
<p>Ditto the Episcopal Church: Release of the type of information that has been sought to the membership would naturally release it to everybody else, too. For better or worse, in law, the procedure has always been to keep things like the cost of litigation confidential until after it&#8217;s over, even for governmental bodies spending taxpayer money. One of the primary exceptions to Kentucky&#8217;s open records act is the need for confidentiality in ongoing litigation.</p>
<p>So, if we don&#8217;t require governmental bodies paying for legal services with our own tax dollars to release the cost, why should we expect a private organization to do so? We&#8217;d be amazed if General Motors or Microsoft released information like this. I realize that the Episcopal Church must be held to a higher standard than private businesses, but it still needs the breathing room to either settle its disputes or litigate them. After this is over, there will be no need for confidentiality, but there is today.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18602</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18602</guid>
		<description>&quot;When a religion is good, I will conceive that it would support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it&#039;s professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, &#039;tis a sign I apprehend of its being a bad one.&quot; Benjamin Franklin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;When a religion is good, I will conceive that it would support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that it&#8217;s professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, &#8217;tis a sign I apprehend of its being a bad one.&#8221; Benjamin Franklin</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18601</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:13:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18601</guid>
		<description>Jose,
No matter how you try to clean it up, the fact that they are NOT releasing the ASA numbers is a bad thing. We just had General Convention where TEC leadership refused to release the cost of the lawsuits. The excuse of we can&#039;t release that information because it will tip off our strategy, is bogus. Any one can see what is TEC&#039;s strategy. The hiding of the ASA numbers and the cost of the lawsuits shows not only a lack of trust in the body that They(TEC leadership) is leading but it also shows fear and an attempt to control all aspects of the crisis. Last time I checked the last group of people who showed these type of governance traits was the Politburo of the USSR. Have you seen them lately? By stonewalling or refusing to disclose information you make it harder for people who are trying to be loyal stay that way. The ASA numbers are happening to all mainstream churches, the reaction to those numbers shows us a organization that is in deep crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jose,<br />
No matter how you try to clean it up, the fact that they are NOT releasing the ASA numbers is a bad thing. We just had General Convention where TEC leadership refused to release the cost of the lawsuits. The excuse of we can&#8217;t release that information because it will tip off our strategy, is bogus. Any one can see what is TEC&#8217;s strategy. The hiding of the ASA numbers and the cost of the lawsuits shows not only a lack of trust in the body that They(TEC leadership) is leading but it also shows fear and an attempt to control all aspects of the crisis. Last time I checked the last group of people who showed these type of governance traits was the Politburo of the USSR. Have you seen them lately? By stonewalling or refusing to disclose information you make it harder for people who are trying to be loyal stay that way. The ASA numbers are happening to all mainstream churches, the reaction to those numbers shows us a organization that is in deep crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: Caleb Powers</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18600</link>
		<dc:creator>Caleb Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:15:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18600</guid>
		<description>And I suspect, perplexed, that this is the fate of all the mainstream churches. I remember attending a dinner at Harvard-Epworth United Methodist Church, which I attended in law school, at which they honored an older gentleman who had been a member of the church for 50 years. Bear in mind that this is a student-oriented church and most members hadn&#039;t been there five years, much less fifty. 

This fellow, who was retired by this point, had run a printing company in Cambridge and came to every church service, though he rarely said anything. At the dinner, the minister asked him how he came to be a member of the church. I expected to hear something about a big faith experience or something, but what he said was, &quot;Well, the minister came to see me in 1935 and said that my sister had joined this church and she thought I should come here, too. So I did.&quot; And that was it. 

The problem is that few people are finding their way to mainstream churches that way anymore. We are dwindling down to a core of True Believers, people interested in the social gospel and who believe that religion doesn&#039;t have to be fundamentalist to have an impact both on the member and the world. That leaves out most church members of any denomination, so I imagine we&#039;ll continue to shrink.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I suspect, perplexed, that this is the fate of all the mainstream churches. I remember attending a dinner at Harvard-Epworth United Methodist Church, which I attended in law school, at which they honored an older gentleman who had been a member of the church for 50 years. Bear in mind that this is a student-oriented church and most members hadn&#8217;t been there five years, much less fifty. </p>
<p>This fellow, who was retired by this point, had run a printing company in Cambridge and came to every church service, though he rarely said anything. At the dinner, the minister asked him how he came to be a member of the church. I expected to hear something about a big faith experience or something, but what he said was, &#8220;Well, the minister came to see me in 1935 and said that my sister had joined this church and she thought I should come here, too. So I did.&#8221; And that was it. </p>
<p>The problem is that few people are finding their way to mainstream churches that way anymore. We are dwindling down to a core of True Believers, people interested in the social gospel and who believe that religion doesn&#8217;t have to be fundamentalist to have an impact both on the member and the world. That leaves out most church members of any denomination, so I imagine we&#8217;ll continue to shrink.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18598</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18598</guid>
		<description>Sorry that should read &quot;compile yourself&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry that should read &#8220;compile yourself&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18597</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18597</guid>
		<description>The decline continues......

Here is the information. You will have to complie these yourself.

Charts:
http://12.0.101.92/Charts.aspx 
 
 
DCF
http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_1082009103705PM.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The decline continues&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>Here is the information. You will have to complie these yourself.</p>
<p>Charts:<br />
<a href="http://12.0.101.92/Charts.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://12.0.101.92/Charts.aspx</a> </p>
<p>DCF<br />
<a href="http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_1082009103705PM.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://12.0.101.92/reports/PR_ChartsDemo/exports/ParishRPT_1082009103705PM.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gulfstream</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18596</link>
		<dc:creator>Gulfstream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 23:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18596</guid>
		<description>I had a 45 year career as a statistician, operating at the grunt, manager, salesman, executive and pundit levels. I think I know every trick in the book. Without the tricks, numbers nearly never lie. So the wonder is when you get to see the numbers without any tricks. Anytime I encountered people &quot;stalling&quot; the release of numbers, without a rational reason like &quot;we counted the green balls twice&quot;, it meant they didn&#039;t like the results and were busy composing a &quot;spin&quot; that would disguise the truth.  But truth is not a very important priority for TEC, is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a 45 year career as a statistician, operating at the grunt, manager, salesman, executive and pundit levels. I think I know every trick in the book. Without the tricks, numbers nearly never lie. So the wonder is when you get to see the numbers without any tricks. Anytime I encountered people &#8220;stalling&#8221; the release of numbers, without a rational reason like &#8220;we counted the green balls twice&#8221;, it meant they didn&#8217;t like the results and were busy composing a &#8220;spin&#8221; that would disguise the truth.  But truth is not a very important priority for TEC, is it?</p>
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		<title>By: perplexed</title>
		<link>http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/presiding-bishop-hides-membershipattendance-statistics/comment-page-1#comment-18593</link>
		<dc:creator>perplexed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 17:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://biblebeltblogger.com/?p=1803#comment-18593</guid>
		<description>Caleb, I do agree with you on several points. I think the Catholic scandal has hurt religion across the board. I also think that congregations that have these huge campuses have lost the message about religion and most church goers are not satisfied having to supplement the operating expenses for these huge operations in these hard economic times. I believe that your basic churches that preach and follow what they preach are going to be the survivors of these times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb, I do agree with you on several points. I think the Catholic scandal has hurt religion across the board. I also think that congregations that have these huge campuses have lost the message about religion and most church goers are not satisfied having to supplement the operating expenses for these huge operations in these hard economic times. I believe that your basic churches that preach and follow what they preach are going to be the survivors of these times.</p>
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