Loading ...Military supplier imprints Bible citations on weapons
flockwoodThis is a weird, weird, weird one, folks.
A Michigan company is printing Bible citations onto high-powered rifle sights that it sells to the U.S. military, ABC News reports.
Some folks are up in arms because they say it blurs the line between separation of church and state and because it injects religion into America’s Jihad against Radical Islam War on Terrorism.
But let me ask a question that the story doesn’t address. Is it blasphemous to quote the Prince of Peace on a piece of military equipment. Is it sacrilegious to stamp New Testament scripture references onto a deadly weapon?
And finally, if Jesus were stamping scripture references onto military weapons, which quotes would he pick?
Love your enemies?
He that lives by the sword will die by the sword?
Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?
January 18th, 2010 at 8:08 pm
Imagine how this will be played to the Muslims who view the US as the Great Satan who is out to destroy their holy faith. It’s hard enough to fight lies. Now here is real factual evidence of a Christian military fighting a crusade against the martyrs of Allah.
January 19th, 2010 at 4:55 am
It all depends on how rightous you think you are!
January 19th, 2010 at 7:27 am
How ironic!
January 19th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
It is a challenging question to find an answer. God’s mission in sending Jesus to this world was totally different than American soldiers fighting Al Qaeda and its allied force to save lives of innocent people killed daily around the world. Christ’s blood saved the souls from sins, and soldiers’ blood save lives of innocent people. May God protect those soldiers who are protecting us! The answer should be none of the above. The current circumstance are different, it is like saving a child (innocent people) from a well, as Christ commanded.
When Jesus Christ was surrounded by fanatic and jealous Chief priest and his followers, Christ surrendered to political authority (chief priest) for redemption of total human’s sins and commanded His disciple to put back his sword and healed the sufferings caused by a single stroke of the sword. We know One Holy Blood was shed for giant sinful mankind. But 9/11 Osama bin Laden and his fanatic army of terrorist, declared war against America and western countries to get back their dream land Jerusalem and to reestablish Muslim emperorship around the world as it was in history. Bin Laden colored the war with religious issue (Jihad) in order to involve all Muslims to win the war. American and Westerners are fighting this war for survival. This is a war of necessity for national interest, not for war to keep faith. In defeating enemy morale are important, and it depends on faith where soldiers belong. In fighting enemies Church and State become one in principle; defeat the enemies no matter what.
January 19th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Julian, this is not a question about whether what we’re doing internationally is correct. This is a question about whether they should put citations to the Bible on sniper sights. Period. And the easy answer is no, if only because the inclusion of these citations was presumably not part of the technical specifications of the sights, nor necessary to their functioning in any way.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is what happens when people act without thinking, and do things without clearing them with their superiors. I suppose someone in this company decided that it would be a nice expression of his religious viewpoint to put these citations in there, not realizing the political, legal, and international ramifications of his actions. And, of course, he (or she; this is so dumb that I assume a man did it, but maybe not) did not check with the department of defense before doing it.
We are engaged in a worldwide battle against terrorists that we absolutely 100% cannot afford to be labeled a Christian jihad against Muslims. By acting without thinking, this company has undermined the foreign policy of the United States just as effectively as those who were accused of defiling the Koran as part of their treatment of prisoners. We simply cannot allow this conflict to be presented as a Christian vs. Muslim conflict, and this sort of thing gives ammunition to the enemy.
January 19th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Caleb, actually by my above posting I pointed out religious quote from the Bible is OK when our soldiers get spirited, by knowing God is with our side, because we are fighting for just cause. The quote from the Bible should be such that would encourage soldiers to be bold and over come fear of being killed by enemy for country and saving innocent lives of any faiths. Secular encouragement is not enough for a soldier who may die any moment. He needs consolation from God from the Bible that would encourage him dieing happily for just cause. There is no easy answer for a war.
Christ is Prince of Peace; no doubt, does it mean Christian would not save innocent life by killing terrorist, for the sake of loving enemy? In that case no Christian would be a soldier. These three peace questions “1) Love your enemies? 2) He that lives by the sword will die by the sword? 3) Father, forgive them for they know not what they do?” are principles of living together peacefully. It does not mean if somebody tries to kill a people and by seeing I would pray to God forgive him, he does not know what he is doing.
It is interesting to know many people do not see this “war against terror” as a war like conventional war such as WW-II, where there is definite enemy and territory to conquer. Media level terrorist winning against government force when terrorist successfully kill innocent people and destroyed property, instead of criticizing terrorist killing innocent people and discourage them.
January 20th, 2010 at 8:27 am
I agree Julian that soliders do need the peace of God. However, being that the issue is whether putting bible versus on sniper rifles is a legitmate practice it takes away from your point. I cannot see how this is legitimate. I am not a fan of this war but it doesn’t mean I don’t support the men and women of our military.
Putting bible versus on a gun does nothing. Its legalism to say it would.
January 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm
Julian, it’s not a question of who is ultimately right in a cosmic sense, it’s a question of who makes these decisions. The military is owned and operated by the government. That means the government gets to make the decisions. When the government buys rifle sights from private contractors, there again, it gets to make the decisions. That means the government, not some crazy South African arms merchant, gets to decide what goes on the rifle sights.
Here, the government not only did NOT order the rifle sights with citations to bible verses stamped on them, under the first amendment to the constitution, they probably legally couldn’t do that. And any reasonable defense contractor should know that.
This is a question of government policy, and this company is taking millions of dollars of government money, and then producing weapons that undermine the foreign policy of the United States. If I were the inspector general of the agency that bought these sights, I’d immediately cancel all contracts with the maker and try to recover the money paid it in the past. The bottom line is that when the government buys something, particularly something as important as military hardware, it gets to set the specifications, and the specifications don’t include bible verses.
January 20th, 2010 at 4:39 pm
Julian, one more point. I agree that soldiers need spiritual guidance and support. That’s why we have chaplains, and why many soldiers carry Bibles or other religious books with them. Putting citations to verses on rifle sights, though, is not the answer in any way, because it involves the government in what looks like a religious war.
January 21st, 2010 at 4:21 pm
Caleb, what would have been your reaction if US military finds al Qaeda rifle with imprint of Quranic verse? There would be no additional anger among Muslim world with the inscription of biblical verse in the rifle. Rather, immoral behavior such as sexual harassment, undue torturing, killing, looting or raping by US Army would encourage enemy to fight diehard as well as Muslim world to put political pressure. In reality it is the concern of non-Christian civilian as perceived by the supplier.
War Theater is a place where civilian law does not apply, government and Church become one to fight common enemy. In contractual agreement, policy, practice and motive of both parties are to be considered. As per supplier company The Trijicon, inscriptions on the rifle is of normal practice and their motive is to inspire the soldier to use this fire power with God’s eyes. With humanity I do not see anything wrong against humanity that could raise question especially at war time. This is a war whether we like or not, and war field could be right in front of our eyes or we could be in middle of war zone like victims of WTC. Let us hope not, but we should take this war seriously.
January 21st, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Good to see that ABC is on the ball. The army has been using these sights, and earlier, models for the past 23 years — and the manufacturer has been using Biblical descriptors as part of its product code all along.
The secret Jesus codes were used in Panama (perhaps it was the divine invocation that brought down Noriega) the two Gulf Wars and up to today.
One need only Google the Trijicon serial numbers to see that this was discussed in the civilian shooting community …. a quick search brings this up on various forums in 2006.
The question whether this is any more offensive than the Greenie Weanie inscriptions found on some product labels, or as fiendish as the secret satanic symbols of Proctor and Gamble (a favorite of conspiracy buffs) or the In God We Trust embossed on our coins I will leave to others.
But as high powered investigative journalism … perhaps not.
January 21st, 2010 at 4:37 pm
As far as the Quran verses, same thing, Julian. I don’t know if you’ve ever studied contract law, but the concept is simple. When you order something, be it a cheeseburger or a rifle sight, you get to decide what to put on it. Period. No ketchup? Then no ketchup. Here, there was no specification requiring bible verse citations on the sights, so they shouldn’t have put them on the sights any more than they should put ketchup on your cheeseburger if you told them not to.
Civilian law does very much apply in time of war, and one could argue that this is when we need it the most. Otherwise, you get things like My Lai and Abu Ghraib. The only thing reining in the military is civilian control, and we need to increase, not decrease that civilian control. If we’d let the military have their way, they’d still be segregated, all male, top secret, and entirely homophobic.
You say the Trijicon practice of doing this sort of thing is “normal practice.” Really? Normal for whom? It’s not normal practice for the military, and in fact is a forbidden practice for them. And, once again, in commerce, the customer is always right, particularly when the customer is the government in time of war. This is totally indefensible on any ground, and if the inspector general has any guts whatsoever, he will pull the contract.
Julian, when you say things about the church and the government joining together in time of war to fight a common enemy, I wonder if you understand our constitution. We have a separation of church and state that applies in war as well as peace. While individual soldiers may well have faith in God, their government is a secular government and must remain that way.
January 21st, 2010 at 5:31 pm
If the secret codes actually triggered divine intervention in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, then it would behoove us to take a minute and look at the results and ponder what God is telling us. Hint: The Almighty might not like what we are doing there.
January 22nd, 2010 at 4:54 pm
Jose, if US do not fight then she would have to” turn the other cheek”, to al Qaeda to hit her until it gets tired off. Off course al Qaeda is hitting US since 1980, started by attacking US Embassy in Lebanon, killing about 20K of our soldiers.
Caleb, you might have forgot that time to time Church and State join together when both need God’s help. Then President and people of America say “God bless America”, “…so help me God”, etc., etc. and treasury secretary imprint “In God we trust” in coin. It is implied law that time to time Church and State may go together without violating constitution, because both (Church and State) are comprised of people who control both and laws are for the people.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Julian, buddy, you just don’t get this. This has nothing to do with America’s theoretical reliance on God. This is military procurement. When we put “In God We Trust” on our money, it’s because Congress authorized it, not because some nitwit in Washington decided to do it himself. And, it’s no doubt unconstitutional, but no judge has the guts to say so. Here, you have something worse, that is, someone who doesn’t even work for the government decided to ignore 200 years of American law and policy, and put citations to Bible verses on the sights.
I don’t think you understand the import of this. What if this were something that affected the usefulness of the sight. What if the specification called for a particular level of magnification, and the guy said, “Nah, I think the Bible calls for a different setting,” and ruined the sight. Well, that’s effectively what happened, because the inclusion of Christian references to the sight undercuts America’s foreign policy and makes the military’s job more difficult.
All in all, this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with contract law.
January 27th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
“it’s no doubt unconstitutional, but no judge has the guts to say so.”
Caleb, here it is interesting and mystery of life that time to time judges have to bend to honor the reality of people’s sentiment, otherwise situation would turn around and make thing nasty for everybody. It is not the guts of the judge but the public demand that make everything possible.
I agree, current political war with Jihadist, makes the quotation politically incorrect, but not with technical accuracy or moral of the soldiers. Please be noted that this is not the first consignment to military that the quotation have been overlooked, they have been supplying rifle for years with biblical quotation on it. Matter of facts timing is not right for this consignment.
January 28th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Well, Julian, all I can say that if they’ve been distributing non-conforming rifle sights for years, they couldn’t have had much impact on anybody, because the first time somebody with a rank above buck sergeant found out about it, the sights would have been pulled.
As I’ve said before, this is merely a matter of contract law.
As to the judge thing, the reason we have a constitution is to protect us from the tyranny of the majority. When we’ve allowed majority rule in the face of constitutional restrictions, we’ve had things like lynchings of blacks in the south, state segregation laws, and laws that approve discrimination against gays and lesbians. I’ll take the constitution any time over a majority of the electorate.
January 28th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
“The reason we have a constitution is to protect us from the tyranny of the majority.”
Touche!
January 28th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
It’s true, KC. Every great Supreme Court precedent interpreting the constitution goes straight against the majority. In Brown v. Board of Education, no doubt the majority (at least in the South) would have voted squarely against ending segregation. Ditto inter-racial marriage in Loving v. Virginia, prayer in the public schools, abortion, etc.
I hesitate to think what this country would be if it were truly a democracy.