Loading ...LDS church: Christ’s atonement ‘crucial’
flockwoodTheologically, Protestants, Catholics and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often have different perspectives.
So I e-mailed church officials in Salt Lake to get their perspective on atonement theology. Essentially:
Was it God’s will or plan for Jesus Christ to come to earth and die on the cross? And is this teaching peripheral doctrinal area or is this a central tenet of faith?
Here’s what I was told: The church teaches that “Heavenly Father instituted the ‘plan of salvation,’ which allows individuals to live in His presence and with their families for eternity. In fact, this is His work — to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His sons and daughters.”
Mormons don’t believe that God ordered Jesus to go to earth. They believe that Jesus volunteered for the assignment, offering to go and die to redeem humanity before the first man and woman had even been placed on the planet.
God knew man would sin and that man would need a plan of salvation. That plan was crafted before the foundation of the world, Mormons believe.
Jesus’ sacrifice is not peripheral in Mormon belief. “The Atonement of the Only Begotten Son of God is the crucial foundation upon which all Christian doctrine rests and the greatest expression of divine love this world has ever been given,” according to Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.
Elder Holland’s complete article, titled, “The Atonement of Jesus Christ” is posted here.
It’s part of a broader series, entitled“Jesus Christ the Son of God.”
Another statement, “The Living Christ” is available here.
My thanks to Marc Stevens of the church’s public affairs department for helping me track down the correct answers.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
My thanks to you, Frank, for going to the source to get an answer.
April 24th, 2009 at 4:09 am
Will you also get official pronouncements from representatives of Islam? Baha’i?
April 24th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Jose,
And that would serve what purpose? Neither one of those religions believe Jesus Christ to be the Savior of mankind. Or are you again, in a backhanded way, stating your belief that LDS are not Christian?
April 24th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
I don’t know that I’d ask members of non-Christian sects, but what about liberal Christians? Unitarians? Quakers? United Church of Christ? The large liberal element in the United Methodists? I suspect that there’s a huge diversity of opinion out there on this, but you’re not going to uncover it by interviewing only conservatives.
April 24th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Islam is the other monotheistic faith that holds Jesus in reverence. Jesus appears in their holy scriptures and is a major part of their theology. It would be arrogant indeed to exclude them from this conversation.
Don’t know much about Baha’i except that they also accord a special status to Jesus. Why not get their opinion on the matter? Or any other religion that recognizes Jesus in any way?
Frank’s survey has left the ECUSA and the Anglican Communion and even strayed off the path of mainstream Christianity. Why? At some point you have to ask why some faith groups are included while others are left behind. It might be interesting to hear what non-Anglicans have to say about this controversy, but let’s not confuse “interesting” with “informative” or “meaningful”. Otherwise we should ask Miss California and Perez Hilton their opinions while we’re at it.
April 24th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I didn’t realize that Perez Hilton was a real person until that thing broke out. I thought it was just the name of a blog.
April 24th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
“the other monotheistic faith that holds Jesus in reverence.”
One of these days I’ll convince you, Jose.
But not until you get those ideasout of your head that I’m sure were planted by your past ministers about how non-Christian we are. I don’t know if your phrase above is meant to say in a nice way your belief about our beliefs, but let me tell you in as plane of a fashion that I can….we do not just hold Jesus in reverence, but we worship Him as the Son of the Living God and the Redeemer of mankind. End of Story.
Frank asked the LDS what they think because, I believe, that he understands that while our theology might not always agree with those of orthodox thinking, the LDS have the same right to call ourselves Christian as do you. Islam and Baha’i faith do not even call themselves such, so it would make no sense to ask them the question.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pm
David, I can’t speak for Jose, of course, but my interpretation of his reference to Islam as “the other monotheistic faith” was meant to distinguish it from all Christian faiths — including the LDS Church; I don’t think he meant to exclude you, and I certainly don’t, either. While I don’t agree with most LDS theology, I also don’t agree with much of the theology of other conservative Christian churches, either.
April 24th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Having re-read his post, I agree with you Caleb. My apologies, Jose. You know when you’ve read enough of one thing it just gets stuck in your head? I read monotheistic as “polytheistic” because we get that all the time also as LDS. Of course, that wouldn’t fit with Islam, as they are not polytheistic. The other thing that went through my head was that he was expressing that we simply reverence Jesus, and do not really worship Him, but if that was not his intent, I can accept that.
Either way, I express my apologies again, Jose.
April 24th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
For my two cents, you could argue that Jesus didn’t exist until he was born a man You have to wonder, God knows these feelings of life, did he exist in a situation similar to human life in some point of his existence prior to mankind. Does God have a family unknown to us, a family that didn’t descend to earth. We really don’t know much, we just think we do.
April 24th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Watch out there, perplexed, according to some you’re pretty close to blasphemy! I mean, doesn’t the Bible tell us everything?
April 24th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
I asked the Mormon Church because it’s the fourth largest religious body in the U.S. I’m calling religious leaders and academics from across the spectrum, and will be putting together a longer post when everything’s ready.
This debate is about Christian doctrine, so I think it makes sense to contact leading Catholics, Mainliners, Evangelicals, Orthodox and Mormon leaders, since those are the five largest groups in the U.S. that classify themselves as Christian.
April 24th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
Doesn’t it depend on who is interpreting the Bible for the right answer?
April 25th, 2009 at 11:26 am
I enjoyed your post very much. I just wanted to applaud you for going to the source to find the answers to these questions. Good form.
April 25th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
David, you might want to revoke that apology. The truth is that I did in fact intend a subtle reference to the Mormon theology. While I won’t pretend to grasp all its details, clearly the Mormon faith includes the belief in multiple gods while my faith requires just one. I understand that Mormons dislike being called polytheistic and reject that description as untrue. Perhaps you will understand that we might be easily confused by the distinction between polytheism and polydeism (or whatever is the proper term).
On the other hand, I would accept an apology for your presumptiousness. You seem to think that I was raised to fear and despise Mormons, and that if I just opened my eyes and to the facts then I would embrace you all as fellow Christians. That is pretty close to the exact opposite. I had practically no contact or understanding of the LDS church while growing up; Mormons were just another Christian denomination. There was no anti-Mormon indoctrination, and I cannot remember a single time that a pastor has even mentioned them from the pulpit or elsewhere. It was not until adulthood that I recognized how different the LDS church is from mainstream Christianity in its theology, history, and practices. Yes, I have read criticisms from former members and non-members, but then again there isn’t a heck of a lot of objective self-analysis that I can find from scholars inside the LDS church. As for fairness, I will also point out that I solicited testimony from current church members, spent some time at the visitors center at the local temple, and even ordered a free copy of the Book of Mormon.
Frank, thanks for explaining the criteria for your survey: large faith groups that identify themselves as Christian. That certainly seems justifiable. I presume that Rev. Forrester also describes himself as Christian. Furthermore, he also has some important numbers on his side. He belongs to a major Christian denomination, he was selected for ordination, and more recently he was elected to the episcopacy by members of his church. Yet now he is being challenged. The question, stated bluntly, is whether Forrester is really a Christian. According to your definition, isn’t the answer an unqualified “yes”?
April 25th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
What troubles me about religion and our current Doctrines here on earth, when we reach a proverbial door, is it our lack of comprehension that can’t open it or our fear? The presumption that we can even comprehend God, on our part is so shallow, when in fact even the humblest of man can and does have a relationship with God that most scholars couldn’t even fathom. If your heart is pure, He is there for you.
It is my belief that hardship and faith produces what the Bible teaches. Its mans own journey and relationship with his belief of God that matters. When his life nears the end, he will evaluate himself with the principles taught to him by his Bible, his family, his peers and his mentors. His success will not be measured in what he has acquired, but his own evaluation about his family, his friends, his trials and tribulations, his desire to do what was right. In my opinion this is what mirrored the death of Christ, the difference in man will be wisdom. Think about the death of Christ, not that he called out to his Father but the fact that he called out to his Father in that day and time. Imagine the burden he had knowing he was the Son of God.
All men are not intelluctually equal and I’m still struggling with this. How does wisdom affect the thought process, how is wisdom measured intelluctually. Some priests, preachers, men of the cloth, that I have talked to are unable to vary from their path of teachings, they cannot see forward. The more I learn, the more questions I have, and the answers I get are programmed. This isn’t what the Bible teaches us, yet we seemed to locked in, unable to progress mankind forward.
April 26th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
The “official” mormon response to the question is not terribly valuable because it is merely a snippet that ignores what mormonism teaches about the nature of God and man. The atonement takes on an entirely different meaning when you don’t see sin for what it is, when you see God as a created being and exalted man, when you see Christ as the spirit brother of Satan. In the Bible and in the belief held by all Christians, Jesus Christ is unique, literally God. Jesus, and Jesus only, could provide a perfect atoning sacrifice for sin. In mormonism, taken to it’s logical extreme, anyone could have done what Jesus did because we are all the same in nature as created beings. Even Satan, the spirit brother of Jesus, could potentially have done the work on the cross. When you get past the flowery rhetoric and the sound bytes, and really look at what mormonism teaches, you find not a sect of Christianity but a polytheistic religion.
So when you ask the question that Frank did about the atonement to mormons, you have skipped a number of steps and what you get is a vague answer that sounds orthodox but cannot be because the underlying assumptions of mormon theology are completely heretical and stand in opposition to the Bible.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Jose, either way, my apology stands. I can also accept that you don’t agree with our doctrine. Some do, some don’t and that isn’t going to change. I’m OK with that and still enjoy your comments. I don’t take them personally, but I will defend my faith if I feel it necessary and I would expect you would also.
Arthur,
I’ve read the bible cover to cover over 30 times in my life. There is nothing in our theology that is heretical or that stands in opposition to the bible. Point blank. Does it stand in opposition at times to orthodox Christianity? Yes, but as I’ve pointed out several times, orthodox Christianity stands in opposition to Biblical Christianity at various points. They are not one in the same as some want to believe.
And no, Arthur, no one but Jesus Christ could have performed the atonement and “Mormon” doctrine clearly teaches this. First of all, he was foreordained as the only begotten of the Father to perform the work. Second of all, he was the only one born on this earth whose Father was God thus giving him power over death. Third, he was the only one who lived a perfect live, no sin, so that he could petition the father on our behalf and take the “punishments” for our sins.
Let me quote from the Book of Mormon: “Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.” 2 Nephi 31:20-21
How about from the Doctrine and Covenants?
“Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved.” (Doctrine and Covenants 18:23)
As far as the Jesus and Satan were brothers thing, try reading your bible again. Satan (Lucifer) was up there with the rest of us and rebelled. If God, the creator of all things, did not create Lucifer, then who did? You want to talk about logic? OK, let’s do it. God created all things, thus God created Lucifer. Those beings that were created by God are his spirit sons and daughters. Thus Lucifer was the Spirit son of God (who, using his agency, rebelled and was cast out.) If Jesus Christ was also the son of God, in the Spirit and the the only one in the flesh, then yes, Arthur, Lucifer and Jesus are and were “brothers” in the logical sense.
Now, explain to me how this somehow makes Jesus any less than he is. Explain to me how this somehow diminishes God the Father and why this is so threatening to you?
When I read posts like your’s, Arthur, so sure of yourself because of what you might have read in some book written by some hack author about what they “know” about what the LDS church teaches, I really find the need to chuckle a bit.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Perplexed,
Your post was one of the wisest I have read on this blog. Thank you.
April 27th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Jose,
If you’ve done all that as far as investigating our beliefs and doctrine, then more power to you my friend. And if you’ve attended as many Methodist meetings as I assume you have and have never heard a something derogatory said about the LDS church, then more power to your pastors. My own experience with the Methodist church has been quite different. The times I attended in high school, whenever I crossed the doorway and sat down, the pastor would inevitably launch into some preaching about “those who vary from the Bible” or “who worship false prophets.” Would he say “Mormon” or “LDS?” No, but we both knew exactly who and what he was talking about and I knew exactly where the parents of my Methodist friend were acquiring the “anti-Mormon” books they were continually handing me. And talk about faulty scholarship…if a 17 year old could return them only a few days later all marked up where quotes were taken out of context, where half-truths found and where complete misinterpretations were underlined in red for their reading pleasure, I can’t imagine what someone with a little bit of knowledge could have done.
All this being said, we’re talking about one pastor and no one else.
Either way, I apologize for any presumptions on my part regarding you or how you might have come to your conclusions.
April 28th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
If it’s any consolation, David, I’ve never heard an Episcopal priest mention the LDS Church; they’re more interested in Buddhism these days.
April 28th, 2009 at 2:56 pm
Thanks, David.
Jose, all modern and current religion is flawed, compared to the standards set by the teachings of Jesus, simply because it excludes!